also I think the engine must be under a load. either a prop or tires on the ground loading the engine. reving it in neutral is bad. I'm on my third tank and there is no noticible difference in "pinch" it still feels brand new. I've been preheating it to 200 before starting it up.
Posts: 51 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I believe many of you gents are doing what I did when I started asking about proper break-in. Dont focus so strongly on each and every point. There are many ways to properly break an engine in. You only need to supply the basic conditions. Proper temperature (normal operating temps), good fuel and oil, and not over revving the engine before the engine has time on it. Plain old common sense. In the car, fine, on a break-in bench, fine, just keep the temps right, dont over rev while running lean, bring piston to bottom of stoke every time you shut the engine down, and you will be fine. Just follow the simple instuctions that come with your awesome RB engine and you wont have any problems or questions.
[ 06. June 2004, 01:35: Message edited by: neo ]
Posts: 12 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I ran one tank threw it at idle on the starter box..it ran at 120f.. then I ran the wot method, but I couldnt get temps up, even with covering the head.. I ran 2 tanks wot temps at 55c (130f), then 2 tanks, got to 60c (140) then 2 tanks, actually got to 68c(154f).. I let the engine completely cool after each run with the piston at bottom of stroke..You said with the motor still hot to check the tdc pinch..well, with the motor at 60c, 140f, and the plug out, there was no pich at all..and when cooled down , the pinch was barely noticable with the plug out..when I put the plug back in, Its hard as hell to turn the flywheel over by hand, but I can do it..with alot of difficulty..Does this all sound good???
[ 06. June 2004, 20:53: Message edited by: jabroni racing ]
Posts: 52 | From: florida | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I have 7 tanks on mine and I did the same test with removing the glow plug with it hot and mine still sticks at tdc. with it cold it will get stuck still and heating it up to 175 loosens it up.
I've been preheating mine to 200 before starting it every time.
Posts: 51 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Rody, I understand what your saying, thats why I listed everything I did.. I will be taking it to the track, and will be running it rich a few more tanks, but I was wondering if the pich test sounded rite?? Does it sound like the motor is breaking in correct from all the detail I gave you on the pinch test??
Posts: 52 | From: florida | Registered: May 2004
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posted
hi again, I've been doing a lot of thinking about all this. here are a few notes I would like your opinion on:
temp is MOST important.
you want the piston to have the least clearence possible at race temp. you want the piston to just barelly move free through TDC at race temp. as the engine cools down 20 degrees you want the piston to start to pinch.
that is my defination of the perfect engine with max possible compression because the piston and sleeve don't leak.
now question is how do you finish the machine work( re break it in) so your get that perfect fit?
by running it at race temp and NEVER less.every minute you run it at a lower temp the piston is rubbing on the sleeve and thus making it looser at a higher temp.
the part that bothers me is this piston rubbing the sleeve to make the perfect fit is making metal particles that must be flushed out of the engine by the oil in the fuel.hence a richer than ideal mixture.
for example lets say the sleeve is .50003 at 150 degrees and .50005 at 250 degrees. If you run the engine at 150 degrees than the piston will fit itself to the sleeve. then when you lean it out and the engine heats up to 250 degrees the piston will be .0002 too loose!( I made up the numbers for the purpose of this post)
Posts: 51 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
When the engine is cold it is normal that you feel the pinch at TDC, when the engine is at its working temperature you will normally not feel the pinch, if you still feel the pinch when the engine is warm, then it is not completely run-in yet and need to take it easy.
posted
HI again; I just wanted to say if you were folling my troubles with the S7 and huge boging making it undriveable.
My problem was I had 1.1 mugen clutch springs with the tension of a bananna. that was my problem the whole time. they must of gotten hot or somehow lost their tension.
now I have the clutch correct I think it is normal . thanks for the help.
one question- runnign the low end rich and the top a little lean( like 5 on the LSN and 2.3 on the HSN) if on my track I have plenty of top end( actually too much top end) is it OK to lean the low more and richen up the high to compensate a little?
Posts: 51 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Happy to hear you have discovered the low-end bog and indeed in many cases this is clutch related.
Richening up the engine on long tracks could be indeed a wise thing to do because running the engine too lean on the top end speed is in my opinion never very good.
posted
is this WOT proccess for running an engine for a long time, or getting your engine race ready soon as possible? ive been told that this proccess is for getting you engine "race ready" asap , but not letting the engine last as long? the other method was:
quote:If you are still idling at least a tank through during break-in, you're using the old-school accepted method (still works well for some!) but it's not the method that the top engine guys (Ron Paris, Dennis Richey, Rody Roem, Michael Salven are just a few I've spoken personally with about this) recommend anymore.
From the very 1st time you start your engine, plop the car on the ground & begin running it in a parking lot in 2-3 minute intervals, tuned only *slightly rich* getting the temps up in the 200F range on a normal day. Every 2-3 minutes, shut the engine down & let it cool completely with the piston at BDC, and then fire it back up; continue this cycle until you've run 15 min or so, and then bump up to 3-4 minute intervals. Vary the RPM and don't be afraid to get the temps in the 200's. What you want is heat cycling of the components without the incredible stress that comes with breaking an engine in when it's overly rich & cold. After cycling the engine in this mannerfor about 20-25 total minutes, it'll be ready for the track and race tuning. I realize this method goes against the old-school "idle on the box" routine, but you'll be amazed once you've completed this break-in routine, your OS will still have amazing pinch w/out sticking at the top AND your OS's compression will last far longer than it will with the "old school" method.
You say you run the engine at "factory settings" for the first FIVE tanks? That alone causes lots of stress, as the factory OS settings are very rich on every OS I've ever owned or tuned. The piston & sleeve haven't expanded to operating temps, and every time the engine turns over, the piston slams into the pinch zone at TDC. The not-so-surprising result can be a cracked con-rod at the crank pin--that's where the majority of the stresses occur as the engine turns over. I've only heard of about 6-8 OS engines breaking con-rods, and they're ALWAYS during the first gallon...and almost every time it's because the guys have performed the break-in procedure you described. Doesn't seem like a mystery as to why it's happening. Drawing out the break-in routine really stresses the engine & actually wears away compression along the way. This method I've outlined will feel weird at every step, but after you try it once, you'll notice a big difference in your engine's performance & lifespan.
Hope this helps; give this break-in method a shot--you have nothing to gain except longer life & more power
^^^ thats off the grid forum
[ 08. July 2004, 19:26: Message edited by: samcim ]
Posts: 27 | From: uk | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
these settings are for a quick start up. each engine is diff, and the weather has alot to do with it. when you start it you may have to richen or lean it to keep it running as well as to do the run in. the instructions are the best i ever seen for run in that came with it. follow them and your engine will last a long time
-------------------- jesus saves Team Panther Team Xray. TQ Fuel Posts: 445 | From: Purvis, Ms | Registered: May 2004
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Hey guys, I bought a X12 Rody and I started my engine for the first time... But the revs keep on going up and down. i can't seem to find a stable idle-ing setting.....
When i start the engine the revs go up... drop then... go up again.. after a few minutes the engine stalls.. I haven't touched the needle settings (yet).
Should I first try to get the engine to idle nicely? Then open the HSN some more, so that the engine starts to 4 stroke?
Posts: 12 | From: Rotterdam | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
yes you need to get it to idle constantly, that is one reason of idleing the first tank. keep the temps down, 190-200 is the goal. also did you check for air leaks.good luck
-------------------- jesus saves Team Panther Team Xray. TQ Fuel Posts: 445 | From: Purvis, Ms | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Thanx, the temperature was around the 80°C, with a fan cooling it. So that is good (according to previous posts).
I don't think there was an airleak, but I'll check again. If it's not an airleak, should i try to get the engine idle-ing constant by adjusting the secondairy needle? Becuase that needle is setup accoridng to the FAQ on the RB site.
Posts: 12 | From: Rotterdam | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I think i found my problem or at least 1 part of the problem. My serpent impulse pro has a carbon radio plate. And the centax flywheel spins close to the carbon radio plate... I saw sparks between the flywheel and radio plate. That and my failsave is flashing a lot of the time.
The electric discharge must be interfering with my barke/throttle servo. How the hell am i going to solve this... Posts: 12 | From: Rotterdam | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Grind the carbon so you have more space between all this and so you have nothing rubbing. In other words you need to fix this to avoid you getting into more bad trouble because a runaway can turn out very expensive.
posted
Thanx Rody. Well because I work at an aircraft manufacturing company we have a lot of experience with aluminium and carbon. So I asked our lighting strike specialist. He suggested first to make an electrical contact (read wire) between the carbon radio plate and the alu chassis plate.
Saturday I will go to a circuit and see if it helped solve the problem, if so I can start running-in my engine.
If this doens't work I will remove part of the radio plate.
i must say the X12 Rody sounds SWEET, even though I'm stil running it very rich.... oil is spraying from the exhaust tip Posts: 12 | From: Rotterdam | Registered: Oct 2004
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