posted
Could be your temp. gauge is not reading correctly. Anyway go ahead for 2 more tanks like this and then try to lean out the engine. Normally the temp will go up by then.
Just purchased a RB WS7-2 and have a few questions about the break in process.
Firstly im no stranger to RB engines as ive owned a WS7 and a C4.
First question is: When breaking it in the team way, 3 tanks at full throttle at 80,90 and 100 degrees, where abouts do i do this ? can i put it back onto car with flywheel and clutch and break the tanks in that way ?
Also can i drive it around a park at full throttle for these 3 tanks, or can i just take wheels off car and run it thru the 3 tanks with it sitting on the starter box ?
Im thinking the sitting it in car with wheels off at full throttle would be easiest way to monitor temp.
Anyways any help would be awesome, would like to do it the prop way but its just not an option as i got no prop and no way to run it in that way sorry.
posted
Yes you can break the engine in with it being in your car driving it around in the parking lot since its so fat it actually doest go to fast till the higher temps. You can also read rody's post about this in prior pages if you read the whole article.
Steve
-------------------- 1/8th scale kanai owner new to racing but killing the compitition!! Posts: 20 | From: boise, id | Registered: Nov 2003
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kiwi_flier
unregistered
posted
only concern i have with reading these posts is that you read one then the next and then before i know it im 99% confused and havent a clue how to do it.
But if i was too run it around the parking lot wouldnt that cool the engine and it might not break it in right ??? i was thinking maybe just in car on bench with no wheels on it ? that way it wont get cooled by air and i can monitor temp all the time and make sure its not too high.
posted
you do have a point there it wouldn't heat up by its self i guess but rody says thats fine if you put it in your car. What I did is ran the engine without the clutch shoes on so it would run at a stand still while being in my car.. if you would like this method of running it, it worked great for me and just covered the head with a sock.
-------------------- 1/8th scale kanai owner new to racing but killing the compitition!! Posts: 20 | From: boise, id | Registered: Nov 2003
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kiwi_flier
unregistered
posted
Yeah Thanks Steve, think ill do it same sorta way you did yours, put it in car with only flywheel on and then full throttle it thru the 3 tanks increasing temp as i go thru each tank, than after 3rd tank at 100 degrees i should be ok to start running it around properly but ill keep it rich for few more tanks after that.
posted
NO problem hope it works out for you sure it will if rody does it. Steve
-------------------- 1/8th scale kanai owner new to racing but killing the compitition!! Posts: 20 | From: boise, id | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I've read through this whole thread again and i'm still kinda confused.
Rody says that he uses a special break in stand with a prop, but he also said that its okay to mount the motor in the car and run it at WOT.
Does it really matter which method you use as long as you run the motor at WOT?
-------------------- Mugen MBX4-XR Works (C4 Circuit & C5 Buggy) "Soil is for farming... Dirt is for racing..." Posts: 111 | From: California | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Dont matter just run it WOT so it gets maximum amount of fuel through the engine thats that main reason for doing it this way is getting it warm and alot of fluid through it. As what i do since i dont have a proper stand i just run my engines with no clutch shoe's on so the car is at a stand still and the engine heats up properly.
Steve
-------------------- 1/8th scale kanai owner new to racing but killing the compitition!! Posts: 20 | From: boise, id | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
It doesn't really matter which way you break it in, they will both give a similar result. Using a break in benches are good if you are goin to be breakin in alot of engines or breakin in engines that are not goin directly into cars, as i'm sure rody does alot off. If the engine is goin to be used in a car straight away, its just as easy to do it in the car. You dont have to worry about changing mounts, clutches ect. Also by the time you have finished running it in it wont hav to b retuned after taking it out of the bench and putting it in the car.
-------------------- Hong Nor X1CR FTE Powered by 421B, Ofna Pipe Sacker Pro Powered by RB S5, 063 Pipe RB V12 waiting in wings for new ride Posts: 41 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
there has to be some kind of load on the engine.. i would NOT run it with out clutch shoes, if doing it in car do complete install.. bench use a prop..
if the engine was to "run away" id rather it melt a set of shoes then over rev and throw a rod..
the first few tanks it will be so rich it will not move anyways unless the clutch was set real light.. but even then it should move so slow the wheels will give it a load.. after the 3rd to 4th tank better find a BIG parking lot.. the car will be moving at this point..
posted
I just did this procedure a 2nd time.. this time on a HPi s-25 for a savage.. i must say.. it sure is ALOT easier than the "conventional" method.. thanks for the info you have posted here and the idea behind it.. this is most likely the only method ill use from now on.. for all the issues i read of breakign in the s-25 it was by far the easiest engine i have ever broken in.. not to say bad things about the rb.. it just lacks the tight tolerances the rb has which makes it harder to break in..
i needed a engine to jump snow banks with and dont want to break a rb in 1/2 like i almost did with the stock savage 21bb engine when it was 4 days old
posted
Well started to break my new ws7-2 in today, was a real mission getting it to turn over on starter box, so heated her up with hair dryer and that seeemed to let it turn over enough to fire it up, then ran it real rich at full throttle, pretty much think it was as rich as it could go as needle wouldnt screw out any further.
Think temp was around the high 60s to low 70s, bit low but i thought id take my time and do a few extra tanks at diff temps.
But after first tank it was going real well, i let it cool, then it was a mission starting it again for 2nd tank but i think my starter box battery was way down on power so i packed it in for the day, pulled head off engine and it still looks brand new, still a real tight pinch up top so got batterys on charge now and will do rest of break in tommorow.
Oh yeah my ears are ringing from the noise, but man gotta love that nitro smell
I also noticed i had a split in my pressure feed pipe from exhaust so that might have been why i had it rich out all the way ?
Anyways think this engines gonna be a rocket
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dynoman
unregistered
posted
So let me get this strait . I just bought a new WS7-2 and I can pull it out of the box put it in the car, start it and break it in at full throttle? I understand alot of this, it does make sense, But I just want to make sure that I do not have to idle a tank through it or so. I would think that running a tank of fuel at idle would be good for it. I just do not want to here ( What did you do that for you idiot ) although I am use to that. The instructions that come with the engine really does not mention much about this.
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posted
you could do this or the other.. this is more for a experianced person willing to try a new idea.. IMO it is alot easier than standard though.. get it running.. richen it up to 4 stroke sound.. while going to wot... in my opinion its just too simple to do this way..
posted
Thats what i was thinking when i first heard about this way, but i did it this way and by golly gosh its alot easier than the normal way i break engines in.
All i did was start it and just basically rickened top end as much as i could and then full throttled it, the temps got to around 60-70 celcious doing this and then i leaned it till it got hotter, then shut it off. let it cooled and di another tank faster, then did it again and then i started driving it around , still rathyer rich, but lean enough to get up around the 90-100 celcious mark.
Thats where i am now, had around a litre thru it, need to lean it out to race settings in the next few days then ill be away laughing
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Jael
unregistered
posted
I have 2 questions:
Will this break-in method be good on all nitro top end engines?
I have an mbx-5 and would like to know if you guys richen the top end so that the engine keeps running at WOT or also at idle. thanks a lot
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posted
when I did mine I set the idle screw so it would run at idle but you have to redo it when your done with the process because it idles to high when you lean it out. Not sure if that answered your question but I tried Steve
-------------------- 1/8th scale kanai owner new to racing but killing the compitition!! Posts: 20 | From: boise, id | Registered: Nov 2003
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I've just made the move up to 8th scale from 235mm and just got my C5 Circuit from Randall & Joe and will be running it in using the WOT in car method.
As this is my first foray into 3.5cc engines I just want to be sure of a couple of procedures before I start.
1) You mention covering the head when using a prop to get the temp up to the 80, 90 & 100C marks during the run in process. Is this also necessary when using the WOT method in the car or does the car being stationary on the starter box negate the need to cover the head?
2) Can you confirm if the motor should have a tank put through it at idle first before moving on to the WOT method.
3) Should the rod be replaced immediately after run in using the WOT method or is it fine to replace it later when wear requires it?
4) We run to IFMAR 25% nitro rules here in Australia. Are the default shims in the motor (.3) sufficient?
5) Currently the daytime temperature here in Brisbane is 30C to 35C with high humidity. Would you recommend a 1501-7 plug?
Lastly thank you Rody and also Randall & Joe from RB Australia for all your support of my racing over the past few years. Having run RB Rody X15's in 235mm class for RB Australia all I can say is thank you so much for the best engines and excellent work on them Rody and thanks to Randall and Joe for all your continued support.
Concerning your questions: 1) No, you cannot reach these temps. whitout having load on the engine. If you do the WOT on the car with the car being stationary the temps stay low due to the loads of fuel going through the engine.
2) I would do an idle run first before you start the WOT method, just to be sure.
3) No, you can replace the rod after you have burned 5-Liters of fuel through the engine. After it depends how hard you race or use the engine.
posted
What I did was buy an airplane engine run in bench (Cheap! US$15 at towerhobbies.com) and a Serpent prop adapter (part # 3411.
Use a 7*4 prop, as recommended by Rody.
-------------------- Speed costs money, I just hope it's not a lot! Posts: 116 | From: Chapel Hill, NC | Registered: Jul 2002
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dynoman
unregistered
posted
Just ran first 6 tanks through my WS7-2. I tried to follow this method and I came up with a conclusion that all this is just a general guide line to brake your engine in. The numbers are close but not exact. First 2 tanks 5 turns out 155-165 F lots of smoke and pulled about a 100 ft before it started to clean out and pick up rpm. 2nd, 2 tanks 4 turns out 175-185 F and still about a 100 ft before I started pulling to many rpms and had to let off. next 2 tanks 195-215 actually had to richen it back up 41/2 turns out it was starting to run and pull rpms to fast. It started every time and never ate a glow plug, and is starting to sound awsome. I am going to run a few more rich tanks in it before I start leaning on it anymore. I let every tank cool down to 100 deg F of cylinder temp, before restarting the next tank. So far everything seems to be OK
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Jay M
unregistered
posted
I just got my C5 and started to break it in today, however since I don't have a bench to mount it to and it is far too cold and snowy to drive outside where I live in the US, I elected to try the motor in the car theory. I installed the clutch shoes and bell though. I was amaysed it fired right up with no problems, it did get stuck a couple of times at TDC but nothing major. I richend the high speed up and let it run full throttle, the thing sprayed fuel out of the pipe and temp was real low, like 90 degrees F. I ran a total of 4 tanks through it at about the same temp, I did not want to lean it out any more cause I feared of overreving the motor. My question is for the guys breaking there motors in this way. How is it possible to get the temps that Rody has suggested without damage to your motor? I was not about to let my engine spool up with the wheels off the ground to reach these temps. I guess I will wait till I can get to the nearest indoor track and drive the car to finish my breakin.
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cox049
unregistered
posted
My WS7-2 is arriving this week. We are having 30F or -1C temperature and lower... Should I wait for running in the engine till warmer times?
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Jay M
unregistered
posted
I broke mine in a heated garage. But still did not get the temps they recommend. Simply just fear of overreving.
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posted
The only way to heat up the engine to the recommended range is by loading the engine using a propeller and covering the cooling head with a rag.
With the engine mounted on the car you will never achieve the temperatures with the engine being rich enough(the most important factor).
-------------------- Speed costs money, I just hope it's not a lot! Posts: 116 | From: Chapel Hill, NC | Registered: Jul 2002
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Jay M
unregistered
posted
Yes this is true! So all this talk of running your motor in wide open on the box w/o clutch or shoes is nonsence. I'm sure I did not damage my motor by my trial and error but the motor needs to come up in temp more for a better mesh between the piston and sleeve and then cool to let things seat. It just stinks cause I'm going to a big race this weekend and will not have any more time to break it in except for practice day on friday. I would rather tweak on the buggy and not have to worry ablut the motor.
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cox049
unregistered
posted
I'm not going to be using my WS7 2 for racing but rather for learning all about my new hobby. Ultimate performance is not very important for me at the moment, but yes endurance and a more forgiving engine.
Would doing the break-in with an extra .1 mm shim fitted be good? Or should I break it in as it comes and than fit the extra shim to run around ?
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posted
I would think it would be to hard to keep a consistent temp that way. I will just run it in the rest of the way at the track so I know it's done rite.
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cox049
unregistered
posted
To keep temp up Rody recommended using a piece of bicycle inner tube over the head. Sounds perfect to me...rubber is better isolator than a rag or foil. I would guess you can use this method with buggy running also. In small laps to monitor temp frequently
posted
Yes, you are doing the right thing. Let the engine get used to the high temperatures and rpm slowly and you should be O.K.
As for the tanks, the instructions were based up 3.5cc engines with their 125cc tanks but due to the use with the smaller engines and their smaller tanks(75cc) there is no big difference in the running in method not time.
To be sure if the engine is ready for racing, then check the following. When the engine has just stopped and is still hot, then take out the glowplug and turn the flywheel slowly, if you then still feel the pinch when the piston reached TDC then the engine is not yet ready and you need to be carefull. When there is no pinch, then the engine is ready.
posted
Man Rody! Am I glad to hear that! I have about 8 tanks through my C5 and figured I could start leaning it out but in doing so my motor had no bottom end what so ever. I can't blieve how tight this thing is. The way i figured it is that it is just still too tight. My buddy just got the same motor only the Rody tunned and he said he has about a gallon and a half through it and it still gets stuck at TDC. I thought I had done something bad to my motor but it obviously just needs mot breakin time. I'm hoping this is why the motor was struggling on bottom end.
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posted
Normally a new engine should not struggle at the bottom-end, so maybe you are doing something wrong, check the clutch, pipe and also check if you are not running the engine too lean.
posted
No! I don't think I am doing anything wrong at all. If anything the motor is probly too rich on the bottom. The motor temp was fine, I put lightened clutch shoes with firm springs to see what that would do but didn't seem to make a difference. Judging my motor by your statement, it's just not ready for racing yet. It's way way tight. I think I will just use my other motor to get me through the rest of the winter then when spring gets here I will work on puting some fuel through it. It's far too cold and snowy for me to run the car outside right now. We have to race indoors over here in the Eastern USA. I would think if a motor is as tight as this one would only hinder performance until it loosens up some. Makes sense to me.
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cox049
unregistered
posted
If brakin in the engine in cold weather (around 0 celsius) Does it make sense to run it a tad leaner to achieve the 80's, 90's, 100's ?
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posted
The colder the outside temp, the more the engine needs to be richened.
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Jay M
unregistered
posted
Reason being, Cold air is more dense than warm air. Therefor if you have your motor tunned for about 70 degree weather and then it drops to 45 degrees, you would richen the motor.
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