posted
Hi everyone, I'm new to this site, I've been having trouble with my C6 wearing the piston and sleeve out pretty quickly(2 so far), I heat cycled the engine by heating up to around 200f(my temp gauge is pretty acurate, I checked it to my themostat in the house), fired it up and ran it at no more than 25% throttle (I set my epa on my radio to only open at 25%)for 3- 2 minute intervals, then went to 3- 5 minute cycles, all in between cool downs were at bdc. Then to 2 more 5 minute cycles at 50% throttle. after that I went to several tanks of fuel at unrestricted throttle with good smoke, and taking it easy on the needle settings (not too rich or lean), but after a gallon it lost most compressoin and all pinch, I've used RB engines since 2000 and never had this issue, my S7 runs great still(has over 6 gallons), used the same method for break in on it. Im new to the C6, but shouldnt it last just as long as any other?? Does the C6 require a longer break in?? Or is there a Q/C issue with the piston and sleeve fitment that I dont know about??? (I dont mean any harm asking this question I love RB products, but I've heard of the lack of pinch after break in from another person). If I'm missing somethig please point me in the right direction. Sorry for writing a book, but I wanted to make sure I covered everything.
-------------------- RB POWER IS LIKE NO OTHER!!!! Posts: 7 | From: detroit area michigan | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
It is very hard to guarentee the life of a P/S. It seems what you have been doing is right except for the first running-in I would not do the throttle restrictions with the 25 and 50%, you have to go full throttle and the HSN needs to be rich enough to limit the rpm. There have been no major issue's with the P/S sets and also the C6 engines do not requier a longer running-in. The pinch on the P/S does not determine the performances not the life, we have had engines with no pinch at all running very strong for a long time.
posted
Curious, what kind of fuel do you use in your engines ? I'm 99.9% sure O'donnell fuel is 100% synthetic, which is a fuel alot of people use.Try something with more castor oil than synthetic in the fuel such as blue thunder race formula or go to morgan fuels dot com and see what kind of oil they put in theirs.I'm pretty sure byrons also is a fuel manufacturer who likes to use at least some castor % in their fuel.Trinity monster horsepower fuel uses more synthetic than castor in their mix and may cause engine longevity issues.Look at the fuel your using, it may be the culprit, allways try to use a fuel with lots of castor oil in it, castor is the oil of choice for these high revving engines and will better protect than even the best synthetic out there, especially at temps over 230F where the synthetics break down, the castor oil will not and has much better oil film strength and metal wetting properties ( get a fuel with more castor than synthetic in the fuel mix and try again and come back and report the results )
Also try my break-in method here web page and see if this works better for your application.
[ 04. September 2008, 10:49: Message edited by: lst123 ]
Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2007
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I've been usung Byrons 30% Race Gen 2 fuel with no issues on any other RB engine. Thank you Rody, and lst123 for the reply, I read your break in method, lst123, it seem interesting. When I get the new P/S for the engine I'll give it a shot, I do have a break in stand, but I didnt use it the second time I ran the engine in, the first time I did use it and the P/S wore really fast but it was my own stupidity that wore that one out. I'ts a HUDY stand, I tried to fit an air filter on it but it didn't seem to want to work even with the 90 degree neck, any suggestions on how to make it work???
-------------------- RB POWER IS LIKE NO OTHER!!!! Posts: 7 | From: detroit area michigan | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Motor saver sells a pack of 3 elbows, try the one with the sharp bend to the carb neck web page
[Quote] RACE GEN2 CAR FUELS Developed specifically for R/C Cars, RACE Gen2 has a unique 80/20 blend of synthetic to castor. Available in both gallons and 1/2 gallons -- selected blends are also available in quarts.
Too much synthetic, not enough castor in this fuel.If anything this fuel should be the other way around 80% castor and 20% synthetic would be better.The synthetics should only be thought of as a detergent added to the fuel to prevent carbon buildup, while castor oil would be the primary lubricant, not the case here with this fuel.Try concept fuel if you can get it in your area or try blue thunder HP8 and boost it up to 10.8% oil by adding 4 fluid ounces of maxima castor 927 to a gallon or one ounce to a quart, which can be purchased at any motorcycle dealer.Also blue thunder race formula has 7% castor to 3% synthetic.It's hard to find a fuel with the right blend of castor or any castor in it for that matter, most seem not to know to use the castor as the primary lube and the synthetic for just keeping the engine clean of deposits.With your next piston sleeve I would try a quart of blue thunder HP8 and add an ounce of 927 to it, or a quart of blue thunder race by itself with no added oil and see if it produces more positive results.really think the 80/20 of syn to castor is your problem even though it may not produce the same problem in another engine of the same brand, mabe this is a more sensitive engine.Also most of these engines use a microcasted piston, a forged CNC piston will last longer than cast any day.With that being said just switch to a fuel with more castor than syn and try that first.
[ 05. September 2008, 03:27: Message edited by: lst123 ]
Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Without a really long drive it's the only good fuel to use, what about adding castor to the Byrons??? If not I guess I'll have to make the trip, anything is worth a shot on a $400.00 engine!!!
-------------------- RB POWER IS LIKE NO OTHER!!!! Posts: 7 | From: detroit area michigan | Registered: Aug 2008
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Problem with that is, your byrons contains 11% oil ? not sure which 30% formula your using.And with that fuel even adding an ouce of castor to a quart or 4 ounces to a gallon will still leave too much synthetic, you can try though.Klotz BeNol is a straight high quality castor and you can buy it online or at a motorcycle shop as well.that will only change the syn to castor to mabe 50/50 though for this fuel because so much syn, not enough in my opinion.you can order fuel by the quart online, not sure how much shipping would be with the hazardous material fee's and such though.You can try a quart of either of the fuel I said first and get it online and see if that solves the problem at least.Morgan fuel, the same that blends sidewinder fuels, blends the blue thunder fuels for horizon hobby and puts CP-07 in their fuel, which is a friction reducer and also helps engine last longer.you can also try Sidewinder World Champ 30% Nitro Fuel, but im not sure the castor to syn ratio they use in this, all I know is they use castor in this fuel.
[ 05. September 2008, 03:51: Message edited by: lst123 ]
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posted
lst123, you have been a great help, I will try a fuel with more castor, I'ts gonna take a while before I get the P/S for it, I've got a pretty big order, including ceramic bearings and new seals also alot of stuff for my buggy for this fall/winter indoor races, Im gonna get the filter necks from A-main too, but when I do I will post and let you know how it goes along with your break in method. Thank you Rody, and lst123 for your time and conserns, this is a great site, if I have any more questions I will definatly ask. Keep up the great service Rody, very helpful, it's not that often a big company like yours takes time and conserns for people anymore, I will definatly be a customer of RB products for life, this site, and great customer service was the final sale for me Thanks again, Jim.
-------------------- RB POWER IS LIKE NO OTHER!!!! Posts: 7 | From: detroit area michigan | Registered: Aug 2008
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byrons website gives conflicting stories.here: Synthetic/Castor Ratio: The ratio of synthetic to castor is engineered specifically for the application. Performance Blended Premium Sport Fuels are blended with an 80:20 ratio of synthetic to castor. RACE Gen2 fuels (Except RTR20 Gen2 and RTR33 Gen2) are blended with a 50:50 ratio of synthetic to castor.
it says 50/50.
just try my break-in method and a different fuel and get it past 212F as quickly as possible and make sure it stays there ( preferably 220F-230F for the duration ), should save you some pinch.
when starting out with a low oil content such as blue thunder HP8 ( 8% ) you can bring it up to where the byrons is your currently using 11% ? by adding the ammounts I stated before.10.8% is close enough to 11%.You will lose some of the nitro by adding the oil, will bring it from 30% nitro down to about 29.7% nitro.I would go the HP8 with castor 927 added route.I know castor 927 blends perfectly with these fuels that have castor in the mix, because the synthetic they use has to be compatible with castor and I been doing this all along, so I know it works.
[ 05. September 2008, 06:01: Message edited by: lst123 ]
Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2007
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I'm going to get a cheapo engine thids weekend to try out your break in method. If you dont mind me asking, where did you get the idea for this method??? Did you come up with it on your own?? I would think that if the metals dont cool down and heat back up they would not get tempered, as with brake pads and rotors, for example, if they are used at an excessive amount not going through heat cycles they will warp and cause a nasty pulsation, also the breaks will glaze up, not cure right, and not stop very good. But I do see the point, this method is at a controlled tempurature, so I guess it will develop a memory to expand to. I'm not knocking it at all, I'm just curious, and I will give it a try, If the outcome of the engine is virtually flawless at the end I will pass it on to others, but I'm sure they will have negative things to say about it, before they try anything. I will post and let you know how it goes, for my test engine Im going to use the Byrons race 3000 Gen 2 that I have and add some castor oil to it, how much do you recommend to put in a full gallon???
-------------------- RB POWER IS LIKE NO OTHER!!!! Posts: 7 | From: detroit area michigan | Registered: Aug 2008
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I did not develop this break-in method, just reiterated it.Fantom also changed their recommended break-in method to this one for the engine they sell and revised their break-in instructions for their customers.All makes perfect sense to me, and you can still do the heat cycling later, it doesn't have to happen right away, proper fit is more important than heat cycles.Also at the temps these engine reach there is no heat tempering taking place, to temper these metals would take over 500F degrees.If your going to stick with GEN2 and it is in fact 50/50 castor to syn, then just buy some Klotz BeNol and add 2 ounces to the gallon for that.You can buy the BeNol at tower hobbies and motorcycles shops online and have it dropped on your doorstep with out having to drive.this is what you end up with adding the 2 ounces of straight castor to that mix:
since your allready starting out with 11% you don't want to go much higher like 14%, so just stick with that.Starting out with lower oil content you can tweak the mix more.If you can get the byrons pro driver with 9% you can boost that up to 11 or 12% with straight castor.
[ 06. September 2008, 04:35: Message edited by: lst123 ]
Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2007
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Ok, I got the Klotz BeNol oil, I added 2 ounces to a gallon of the Gen 2, I've also got the test engine for your break in method, I'll try it this weekend after I study it, I'll take ti apart after the whole gallon is gone and let you know.
Thanks. By the way lst123 did you get any pics of how you hooked your gallon to the engine??? I'm sure I can figure it out from your break-in page but pics would help a lot.
[ 10. September 2008, 03:04: Message edited by: jimbo ]
-------------------- RB POWER IS LIKE NO OTHER!!!! Posts: 7 | From: detroit area michigan | Registered: Aug 2008
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